GHUTV LIVE! Lymphatic Health Explained with Dr. Kelly Sturm

Hey, hey, Get Healthy YouTV Squad. Welcome to our monthly Q&A, available for all Get Healthy YouT members and nonmembers, whoever you are. Welcome. I'm Chris Fryag, and I am here today with, of course my sidekick, the well-known Sam Cam. I'm back.

How are you? Good. How are you? Awesome. And we have a really interesting and awesome guest today, Kelly Sturm.

Kelly is a board-certified oncology clinical specialist. I'm reading this so I don't mess up the words: certified lymphedema therapist, doctor of physical therapy, and a knower of all things lymphatic drainage. Kelly. Hi, thanks for having me. So glad you're here.

Kelly is a friend of mine and also an expert in the lymphatic drainage and lymphedema space. Um, we were just talking before. Before we came on about some of the misconceptions out there you guys know in the wellness space. I'm so passionate about wellness and the wellness space, but things go viral for interesting reasons. People glom on to them, and they say, oh, I'm supposed to be doing this.

I'm supposed to be taking that. I'm so, you know, and lymphatic drainage is having a moment right now. I, we hear from people like, what are you doing for lymphatic drainage? How do you do it? What, what should we be doing?

So let's uncover all of that today. We want to take your questions, so feel free to answer or to write in, and Sam Cam is the keeper of all questions. We'll go through questions we have and subjects that Kelly wants to cover, so this is gonna be a busy hour, but already before we came on with you guys in the last 10 minutes, I have really learned a lot about lymphatic drainage, um, and I'm really excited to talk about it. So, um, I know that you do have a bunch of questions, but let's just start with what the lymphatic system actually is. I, you know, you hear things on the internet and you're like, what is that?

Where is that in my body? Like what am I doing about it? Yeah, lymphatic drainage is one that I things that I don't think a lot of people know about. Really, it is a system just like your circulatory system. So your heart pumps blood through your veins and then your, excuse me, through your arteries, and then your veins bring it back to your heart.

Your lymphatics run right alongside your veins and it brings some of the fluid that comes out of the blood, which has proteins in it, back to your heart. But before it gets back to your heart, it is filtered in your lymph nodes and gets out any bacteria, toxins, or anything that shouldn't be there, cleans it all out, and then it comes back to your heart. So it's just a system that helps with your immune system, it helps with the circulatory system. Um, there's a lot that it does, but it's not talked about a lot until now. Till now, so now it's having a moment because now people are like, well, should I be doing something about it?

So let me ask you this then, and then we'll get into some of these questions, um, like it's just a system in your body that works just like your digestive system works or your heart works; like we don't need to be so worried about our lymphatic system unless there's a problem with it, right? Exactly. So the majority of people have a healthy lymphatic system that is working as it needs to, doing what you naturally do each day. And then there are some people who have what we call lymphatic dysfunction, who have a medical condition where the lymphatics are not working properly or they were not born with the proper lymphatics, and then there's things that we do to treat that. OK, so let's everybody take a deep breath.

You do not have to worry about your lymphatic system, but let's find out more about how it works and Kelly, you tend to also work with people who are medically diagnosed with lymphedema or cancer patients that have had lymph nodes removed, and that also, if you are anybody who has Uh, is a cancer survivor who has had lymph nodes removed, please ask your questions. You have the specialist here right now, Sam, do we want, what do we, where do we want to start? Um, so Chris asked the first question. The second question is what is lymphedema? What is lymphedema and how is that different or not, um, from what people call lymphatic drainage?

Is it different? Yeah, so that is different. So lymphedema is a medical diagnosis that is something that someone has. So either someone is born with it, which happens about 20% of the time. And it may show up as a child, or it may not show up until they're a little bit older in age, and then someone who has what we call secondary lymphedema is something that comes on because of typically a trauma or, for a lot of people, it is lymph nodes being taken due to cancer or radiated, or even I've had.

See, people who've had car accidents and had major trauma like they have orthopedically, maybe fractured a bone or whatnot, and then also damaged their lymphatics, and so their lymphatics aren't working. They now have lymphedema as well. So it is different. Lymphatic drainage is a treatment we do for lymphedema. OK.

And lymphatic drainage is something that I, you already mentioned, like the lymphatic system works; it should be working in your body just like other systems are working in your body. You don't every day worry about every system in your body, or you're going to have a worry disorder. Right, right, and so I think we're going to get into like. Should everybody be doing something for their lymphatic system every day, or is that kind of this viral myth that it's one of those wellness things you're supposed to be doing? Yeah, so, so break it down, lymphatic drainage is a treatment.

It's a way for us to help move the fluid that's congested. So when someone has lymphedema, they have swelling. It's usually very visible in their legs or their arms, breast, or chest, wherever they might have it. And we are helping to massage or guide that fluid through the vessels and towards those lymph nodes to help, you know, decongest it, to help, um. Get the fluid out of that area that is swollen and it's stuck there.

So that is a treatment that we do. But your lymphatics normally, they, they just, it does that normally. So your lymphatics don't have a natural pump. You have lymphatic vessels, hundreds of thousands throughout your body, just like your veins and your arteries. They're even smaller, and with your circulatory system, your heart is what pumps the blood through your arteries and your veins.

The lymphatics don't have a natural pump. So what actually pumps fluid is your muscles, by you moving, by you getting up and exercising and moving your body in any shape or form, you are moving your lymphatics. You are helping your lymphatic system. I just love this. This is a new tool in our arsenal, Sam, to tell people we're always telling people strength training builds bone mass, builds muscle, helps with insulin.

Um, sensitivity helps with blah blah blah, but now a new tool in our arsenal is it helps with your lymphatic system. It keeps it, it acts as a pump for that. I love this. That is so people, there's a reason why we keep telling you to move. I, I've been joking about this this week.

I've been saying I turns out the fountain of youth is not a fountain, it's a dumbbell. It's, it's a dumbbell. Pick it up. People start strength training, OK, uh, um, you touched on it a little bit, but there is. Someone that is interested about this because her 7 month old granddaughter was born with hydros, which they said is a lymphatic disorder, um, so she's kind of hoping is there some insight that you know they can do for someone that's 7 months old.

Yeah, absolutely. There are therapists, so I'm a lymphedema therapist. We treat those who have medical conditions like that. So there are lymphedema therapists all over who treat this so they can be seen and find ways to help this individual, this uh pediatric patient. There are a couple foundations now out there that also help support families who have children with lymphedema, and so one is called Bryland's Feet, B R Y L A N, Bryland's Feet, and they can find them on Instagram and on their website and they have wonderful resources to help connect you with someone who specializes in pediatric lymphedema.

I love that and honestly, I, I, I mean, and actually we should be mentioning, I forgot to mention that. Kelly is she runs most of her practice now on YouTube. She has loads of videos for you to watch if you are somebody like this who has a pediatric patient or who themselves has gone through any lymph node, um, removal or if you are just somebody who wants to learn more about the lymphatic system, Kelly is a wealth of resources. We will put your YouTube channel up on the Q&A by the end of this or. At the end of this so that everybody can check You out.

There's a lot of people saying they follow you. That's awesome. That's, um, just for more information too, if someone's born with it, is it something that they always have, or is it something that, like, can go away at the time? Unfortunately, lymphedema is lifelong. There isn't a cure right now.

There are surgeries that are being done, and we're learning more about, but there's still a little bit in the testing phase right now. I have seen some of my patients have surgeries and have really good results, but it's something they do need to monitor lifelong. So if you are born, okay, I heard you say a stat that only 20% of people actually genetically have this lymphedema. Okay, so if you are in that, um, then you should be because is there a supplement you should take or should you be doing the lymphatic drainage Uh, process every day, or how does that work for someone who has lymphedema? Let's talk about that.

And then let's talk about somebody who has no lymphatic issues. Should they be doing it? That's great. So if someone has lymphedema, you really should be seeing a lymphatic specialist or lymphatic therapist because that's gonna look different for each person. When it comes to someone who has lymphedema, has a medical diagnosis, sometimes lymphatic drainage is just not enough.

It's actually not a strong enough treatment to help alone. Things like compression, so think about compression stockings, we have different variety that we use for people who have lymphedema that are stronger, um, that's a big one. There are pneumatic compression pumps that people can wear for an hour a day instead of doing drainage. Exercise we always push hydration, we always push. There are things like that, so it's not one treatment for lymphedema; it's a lot of treatments that we compile into a home program for someone.

I love it. Okay. And then if somebody is like Sam and I, we don't have lymphedema, we don't have lymphatic drainage issues, but I'm seeing online that I should be tapping my body in different places every day, and I'm like worried about it now. Lymphatic drainage is not something that you have to do every day. Again, it's wonderful if you have lymphedema or you might have congestion on occasion.

Maybe you're swollen from sitting on a long car ride, or for me it's when I notice a cold coming on, it's just that things are getting backed up, that's what that is a sign of. So it's something that you can do as a tool when needed, but I can tell you right now, if you don't feel like it serves you, lymphatic drainage takes more time for you each day. You don't have to do it. You can just focus on your exercise and staying hydrated and everything you would do normally to stay healthy. OK, in other words, it's not life changing to tap your body and rub your body if you don't have an issue.

I mean, hopefully, if you are somebody who's exercising a lot, which we tend to see a lot of our members do, oh my gosh. They exercise all the time. They inspire Sam and I; I say sometimes more than we do or like should we get our butts off of our chairs. What did you do yesterday? Oh my gosh.

So you know, many of you are really putting in the effort, and so you can take that lymphatic drainage worry off your list. We all have plenty of worries, um, OK, Sam, any other, yeah, there's, uh, some questions rolling in. So you talked about, uh, compression socks. Can you wear compression garments for too long? That's a good question.

I would say no, if you're wearing the right kind. So that's the biggest thing I see is compression stockings are meant to support, and you shouldn't be wearing them at night if you're getting the ones that are off Amazon or online. We do make, I don't personally, but we can order custom garments for someone who has a lymphatic dysfunction. Those are usually safe to wear because they're made in a special way. So I would say if you're wearing general compression you can do online, I would not wear them all the time, just during the day or when you're moving.

And if you have a lymphatic dysfunction again, work with a therapist and, and then we can help you find something a little bit that, um, a little bit stronger. Um, can you speak about lymphatics post-op, particularly like after a cosmetic surgery or Something like that? Yes, that is an area that is booming right now, and I know it's a big conversation. It is another way to help speed up the process for healing. So someone had surgery, they're more swollen than they normally would be, which makes sense.

What it could be is just more fluid. It makes sense, more inflammation going on, and so you can use lymphatic drainage as a tool to just help speed. Up that process. So alright, let's talk about, um, there are techniques on the Internet. I get served videos of people doing tapping techniques, rubbing techniques, um, you know, and sometimes in a good way, but sometimes with scare tactics like you should be doing this for 10 minutes a morning or whatever and I'm like, oh, for the love of you know what I I don't I can't add one more thing to my arsenal, um.

So talk about that. Like, let's just say you did just have a surgery or you do feel a cold coming on and you're like, I feel like I'm a little swollen in my lymph nodes. Where are the lymph nodes in your body and what are these techniques? Yeah, I think some people, especially if you're online, you'll hear big 6, and that actually is a good reference to you. So the big, the big 6, yep, that is OK.

Um, it's where your major lymph nodes are. You have lymph, you have hundreds and hundreds of lymph lymph nodes all throughout your body, but there are major clusters. So there are some right around below your ear, right around where your collarbone on both sides, and then right in your armpits and then right in the groin, which is right about where you're sitting crease is when you sit, there are large ones there. And so the ones in your groin, your right leg, everything in your right leg goes to the right groin. Everything in your left leg goes to the left groin.

Same thing. Upper bodies go to the armpit ones and then your head and neck drain to below your ears and then everything. Comes around to these major vessels that are near your collarbone and so you can just stimulate those. I don't do a full lymphatic drain routine most of the time, Even if I feel sick, I'll just massage those lymph nodes because you can feel them, they're swollen. Your doctor checks if they're swollen, so we can just do massaging.

And so one thing I see online is people talking about tapping, or you'll see people telling you to use their, you know, their finger and touch right there, that one specific spot. Everyone is different. Your lymphatic nodes are in a cluster, so you're never going to pinpoint the spot exactly if you just use one finger. So one thing I always say, if you see online and you're just using a finger or two fingers, it's probably someone who hasn't been trained appropriately. It's really, you should use as much of your hand as possible, as much surface area as possible, and just massage the whole area because your lymph nodes are all spread out through that area.

So less of a tapping and more of a rub. This area, and, you know, I think people naturally rub right here when they've got a sore throat or, you know, you can feel your lymph nodes swollen. I think this is common knowledge right here. I did not know that you had lymph nodes here. I knew that you had lymph nodes in the armpits just because I've had friends who have, you know, been breast cancer patients and survivors who have dealt with that and then the groin.

That's really interesting. So you can do your own lymphatic drainage, but, if we're hearing you properly, you don't need to worry yourself with it every day. Exactly. It's a tool that if you feel, hey, I'm congested, I'm sick, or you just had a surgery, you can check with someone who's medically trained, especially after a surgery just for infection risk, making sure you're not doing anything wrong or doing anything incorrect, I should say. And then if you have a medical diagnosis, absolutely work with someone on your YouTube channel, do you give, um, instruction on some of this?

Yeah, so that was the biggest thing when I started. My channel five, six years ago. I created videos for those who have a lymphatic dysfunction, and they, I got so many questions from people who just wanted to learn more about it because it's something they hear about and should they be doing it. And so there are videos on there that I have shared what the general person can do. Absolutely, and then also what someone who has lymphatic dysfunction like lymphedema can do.

And honestly, they're very similar, so most of the routines someone—anyone could follow them. Love it. OK. Um, you said that if you feel a cold coming on, like you might rub it. Is there a certain time of day that makes more sense to do it?

Beginning of the day, end of the day? Yeah, that's a really good question. I get that a lot when it comes to the head and neck area. If you think about it, you've been laying flat all day. And so yes, excuse me, all night.

Thank you. All night, all night. And so most people wake up a little more puffy in the face, right? That makes sense because you've been laying flat. Fluid and gravity make a difference, so fluid has been more up towards your face and you sit up, it's gonna start to drain throughout the day, but if you want to do it in the morning, it can help speed it up and help things drain a little bit quicker in the morning.

But at any time of day too, like if you're at nighttime you're like, oh, I'm feeling a little tired, swollen, you're gonna have some tea or whatever, you could do some lymphatic rubbing. There's not a wrong answer. I just say if someone wants to know the best time of day, morning if it's head and neck, evening if your legs, arms, because again, gravity has been pulling things. By the end of the day you're probably more swollen in your feet than you are in your head. That makes sense.

Um, do all cancers compromise the lymphatic system, or is there one type that causes lymphedema more than the others? That's a good question. So really, it comes down to you are not at risk for lymphedema unless you have lymph nodes taken out or radiated. So if someone has a cancer and they have no lymph nodes taken out, you're not actually at risk for lymphedema unless you were, again, born with something that you didn't know you had. And so it's really when someone has lymph nodes taken.

The number one we know is breast cancer. There are usually lymph nodes taken for a biopsy. The more lymph nodes you have taken out, the higher risk you are. Um, but other gynecological cancers, ovarian cancer, they might have groin lymph nodes taken, they might have radiation to that area, so there is a risk of damaging those lymph nodes. Um, but if someone doesn't have a surgery like that, you are not necessarily at risk.

I mean this is really interesting, you know, what I mean, like just to be very, uh, I hope you guys are learning along with us where your lymph nodes are, and there's just been so much, so it's just been so why do you think it's been viral lately? I don't, I don't know. Someone who's lived in this world for over a decade and has been, has had training, you know, over and over for this. I was almost taken back by how much is out there for the wellness side. I think it's great.

People know what lymphatic is and what the lymphatic system is, which is great in my world. Um, but I just want people to know that if, if you don't have a lymphatic dysfunction, you do not need to add something to your list to do each day. I think that's overwhelming. It overwhelms me, and I know how beneficial it can be if someone has an issue. So again, if it serves you, if you're like, oh this just feels good, I feel better because of it, absolutely, it's, it's great, go ahead.

But if you're sitting here like, do I really need to do another thing? No, you don't. You just get moving, stay healthy, exercise, drink water, get some good sleep. OK, I love this. Let's, let's just get one quick question.

So back to, you know, you were talking about like your heart. The pump that goes through the veins and the arteries, there is no singular pump for the lymphatic system. So exercise being the best thing you can do. So this kind of goes back to like, all right, get your butt out there and walk every day or and when you say exercise, it doesn't have to be intense exercise. It's movement.

It's movement. Your muscles, and you activate them, they pump and they contract and they relax and your lymphatics are in there, your vessels are in there and they contract around them and help push the fluid through. It's as simple as that. Love it. Um, we have a breast cancer survivor here.

She is 6 years out, so super great. Um, congratulations. She has a kind of backstory so you can figure out what she's asking. Um, she had one lymph node removed during surgery and dealt with lymphedema in her arm on the surgical side for about six months. Um, it hasn't bothered her since, but is it something that can impact her at any point?

Does it go away? Does it not come back? Like what should she expect? It was only the first six months after surgery. Yeah, it's a good question, and that's something that we treat all the time.

So anyone who has lymph nodes taken, technically, the risk is lifelong. However, the greatest risk is the first one to two years. So when we see someone who is six years out, ten years out, or fifteen, the risk is actually going down because we haven't seen it yet. That being said, it's just something to be aware of. So if someone has an infection just, you know, from a toenail issue or something random like that or another medical condition that comes on, those are things that could potentially be triggered in the future, and so all you need to do is just monitor closely.

Look for, you know, if your rings don't fit the same, your jewelry fits differently, you see size difference, whatever that might be, and then just call either your lymphedema therapist or one locally, and the sooner that we can treat it, the higher the potential that we have to be able to reverse it at that point. Interesting. OK, can you talk about the vibration plates that are super popular right now? Um, do these work, like thoughts on those, and then we'll ask a couple other follow-up questions. And, I want to just make a point.

I was saying to Kelly before we came online, I sold vibration plates on home shopping for like five years. Um, when vibration plates first came out, they were actually many that were like industrial size for gyms, and they were marketed as like stand on these things or jiggle yourself and lose weight, which is an absolute no, that's not gonna help you lose weight at all, but then it came down to I was selling like a vibration plate that was, you know, a small, maybe the size of a vibration plate that was, you know, a small, maybe the size of a, maybe the size of a you know, booball or something. And you plug it in and it would vibrate, and me personally, when I was selling those on TV, I still believe this in my heart, they were really good for older people to help with balance and with circulation, but my opinion is they don't, you don't lose weight if anyone's trying to market it makes you lose weight or you're going to get stronger because you're standing on it, no, but let's hear your take on it and let's hear your take on whether it helps for lymphedema? That's something I don't know. Yeah, it's a good question.

It's another viral moment for vibration plates, but I will say there is research to support things like you said, circulation; it shows that it helps. It does help with blood flow. So there are benefits to it. There is also help with bone support too. There are studies being done that say there are benefits to it.

So yes, you have the large ones that are in the gyms that people use, um, and then you have the small ones at home. There are some studies being done right now for those who have lymphedema or lymphatic dysfunction, like a medical diagnosis, and showing that it can help move fluid. We don't have strong studies yet to say this is the best thing you should be doing, but there's potential. So again, it comes down to whether you find it beneficial for yourself, that you enjoy doing and that fits what you want to do; it absolutely can be helpful, but again it doesn't need to be for everyone. It's really interesting, and on that subject, so as an Amazon influencer, Sam and I have been fielding some questions on our social media, like, hey, are you going to, you know, advertise any vibration plate and have you tried one and do you know which one's the best?

So we were talking about it, and I said, well, maybe I need to order a couple and see which one works best. Again, I will never tell you you can lose weight from a vibration plate. You, I mean, remember, you guys are way younger than me; back in the 50s, women used to get on these vibration machines. They didn't exercise; they would just get on vibration machines. Absolutely ridiculous.

So, but from the standpoint of circulation, improving balance, potential bone mass support and lymphatic drainage support, there is some work, so perhaps that's something, Sam, that we we sample out and see in the future, but, um, really interesting, you know that it could be of some help, but there isn't full support yet. Right? I think the big thing to know is they're not cheap, so it's not for everyone and you don't feel like you have to buy one, but if someone likes it, I have patients who sit at a desk all day and just like the feeling of that they're doing something with the vibration. Put underneath them, um, but there are options just if you're doing it for lymphatic drainage, you have to have one that has a really low setting, so there are certain ones that do and certain ones that don't. OK, good to know.

So for the woman who was asking, she has an 86 year old father with lymphedema and is wondering if this would be good for him. His mobility is really poor and he doesn't get much movement. So it sounds like that might be something again like to get him to move a little bit. I mean, again, it might not be for everyone, but right, something's better than nothing. There are a lot of, we call contraindications or precautions, so you want to check with your doctor because there are some medical things where we can't use vibration plates, for one making sure there are no blood clots or there hasn't been recently, things like that.

So there's a safety piece to it, but yes, we have people who like to sit in a chair and have their feet up on their vibration plate and get a little bit of activation. Would we ideally like them moving up and walking? Absolutely, but it's not realistic for everyone, so we have to find what works for them. Um, questions about rebounding on like a mini trampoline and benefits. Another one has gone viral, um, and again, another thing that I sold on home shopping.

I sold it all, um, but I was a believer and still am a believer in rebounding for the sense of just getting some exercise with lower impact to the joints, less, um, you know, pounding on your joints, but you're still bouncing and potentially helping with some bone mass. You will burn more calories on a rebounder than you would on a vibration plate. Um, you do want some instructions so you don't fall. Um, but they can be helpful. It's just not mainstream.

We've had some people ask, hey, will you do a rebounder workout and get healthy UTV, and it's like there's just not a big enough audience for us to dedicate a workout to. But never say never, um, but from the lymphedema or the lymphatic drainage standpoint, how does a rebounder fit in? Yeah, that's a common one. I do have videos on my channel, joint rebounder workouts, and it's just really because it's another way for people to get moving. And people ask me, you know, it's talked about a lot for lymphatic drainage specifically, but again, we have no proof that rebounding is better than walking or vice versa for lymphatics.

But some people really enjoy it, so great, you're moving, it is a great exercise. I will say 10 minutes on the rebounder, you will be, you know, huffing and puffing pretty well. So it's a great workout. Um, it is actually more gentle on the joints and some people realize if you get the right kind, the spring ones are a little more harsh than the, um, the bungee ones are a little more gentle. You can get the handle, and within 10 minutes you can get a quick, you know, get your muscles pumping, get your calves pumping, get some fluid flowing, absolutely.

But again, don't feel like you need to go spend it if you enjoy something else for exercise. If you walk outside, walking is going to be your best, right? Walking's great. Walking is, but with the rebounder the ones that I would sell, they always had like a bar, you know, so people could balance because the reality is you could fall when you're bouncing up and down so you definitely need to take all precautions but interesting to know that these are tools that could help, but again, like you said, not for everybody. And do you want to spend the money if you're already a walker?

You might not need it. I think that's the biggest thing I show all of these because I get asked them so much. I have videos on all of them. There are benefits to all of them. But really the big takeaway is find something that works for you.

What do you enjoy doing? What gets you moving? What will you do consistently and show up with most days of the week? Well, we're back to that word that Sam and I use on the daily, which is consistency. It's not what you do once, it's what you do all the time that will really be health changing, right?

That's really it, absolutely. Um, we have a member saying, um, she lives in, uh, Madison, Wisconsin, and her health care providers have never mentioned the lymphatic system to her. Um, should she get a diagnosis? Is this something that is already checked they just don't mention it to you? What are your thoughts on that?

I, I am someone who has had cancer treatment, or no, she just says her healthcare providers have never mentioned the lymphatic system. So is this something that they would touch on if you had a disorder or yeah, it's it's actually not something that doctors would touch on, and most doctors don't know much about it because they get about an hour of training in medical school, maybe some get a little bit more. So it's not well known. And it hasn't been. You know, that's really why I started my channel was I heard we’re in the Twin Cities, and here we have really great health care, and I would treat women after their breast cancer treatment who had lymphedema, and I thought that was a normal thing but realized I was very naive and that’s not the same care everyone gets.

So if someone has had cancer treatment and has had lymph nodes taken, you should have had a conversation or should have a conversation about what lymphedema is and what your risk is. Um, and so it's something that you can monitor, and we can address sooner than later. Um, so that's a conversation, but if someone doesn't have any medical history of anything like that, there's no need to be concerned again. Lymphedema, it's very visually obvious. It's very swollen.

You have a lot of swelling. It's usually on one side of the body, sometimes on both, but it's usually one-sided, and again it's pretty obvious if someone does have that. So my doctors never ever mentioned lymphatic drainage. I, I don't, I just don't think it's anything. Again, I think the internet has made this viral, and everyone's like oh my God, what's my lymph system, you know, but yes, we all know that lymph nodes swell in your throat when you are, um, sick, and many of us females as we've gotten older know about the lymph nodes in your armpit because of breast cancer, but other than that, like you say, if you're healthy, you don't have to worry about your lymph system, but the best, the best thing we're hearing, you're hearing it from the mouth of the expert, is move your body, right?

Um, so we have a question about tools like the gua sha, the jade rollers, um, special body, uh, brushes, are those effective or again another, it's the same, it's the same conversation. I have videos on all of these too because some People really enjoy them. Some people love the gua sha or the jade roller. Because it's cool on their face, and it's just nice self-care in the evenings. If you want to do lymphatic drainage with that, absolutely, as long as something is not harming you.

So dry brushes are a big one. It's been around for forever, centuries, um, and it's used for lymphatic drainage. It's really best for, um, softening the skin, but if you get one that's not great quality, you're really potentially damaging the skin and causing irritation. So. At the end of the day, you don't have to buy anything; just use your hand.

The hand is my favorite tool. You can use your hand to do all lymphatic drainage, but again, if you feel good with the tools, because I have some patients who swear by their tools, as long as they're safe for you, absolutely. Um, can you just talk about the lymphatic brushing for face and body for someone that is interested in it? Yeah, so dry brushing is the term we use, and there are a lot on the market. You do have to be careful because some of the dry brushes are really harsh on the skin.

Some are really soft, so again, make sure you're not irritating your skin. We do the exact same routine for someone using their hand and doing lymphatic drainage as you would the dry brush. That's the biggest thing, and the big misconception that you'll see on social media is someone telling you to always brush towards the heart or something like that. You always want to follow the natural pattern of the lymphatic system, and that's towards the lymph nodes before it goes back to the heart. So, it's just making sure you're following a correct routine, but again, you don't have to do the brushes; you can use your hand if you're not interested.

I have a question. So if you do decide, hey, I would like to do some lymphatic drainage, uh, you know, I don't know what you call it, techniques or protocol. Um, show us what you would do. So let's just say like I'm trying to do like I have a cold, yeah, OK, and my lymph nodes are kind of swollen, and I'm feeling a little down. What would I do?

Yeah, so if I sum it up real quickly, we, I always add breathing, so that's my breathing I follow with you too because most, not all of them, but a lot of lymph nodes that are in your abdomen, along with the major vessels that all of the fluid in your body go to before it gets back to the heart. And so deep breathing helps to stimulate those deeper lymphatics that you can't. Massage, OK, so we always do a few deep breaths and then we'll stimulate the lymph nodes, those major areas we talked about using your whole hand or as much of your hand as possible, and you'll just do 8 to 10 circles, so around the collarbone, on both sides on both sides, and directly on the skin, ideally whenever possible because if you're getting a skin stretch is really what the key is, and they're right on the skin, so you're not pressing hard, this is really light, but you're doing 8 to 10 circles, massaging on those areas, same thing, 8 to 10 circles in both armpits. And then both groins and then if we're talking about the head and neck area, you think about a line that draws right down the middle of the face because your lymphatics is broken up into two sides and then you're moving from the middle of the face outwards towards where those lymph nodes are and so you're draining or you're just massaging 8 to 10 strokes towards the lymph nodes and all the way forehead coming all the way down to the side of the face and then you're draining down the side of the neck to these next lymph nodes. That is like.

Super interesting, which leads me to ask you, does it help with headaches? There's some conversation about that. So what's what we don't know enough of, but we're learning is there is a correlation with, well, a lot of new things, one being the brain and things like Alzheimer's or neurological conditions. We have what we call the lymphatics was really only found within the last decade or two that you have a lymphatic system in your brain that if that is congested, that is they see the correlation with things like Alzheimer's and things like that. Um, we do lymphatic drainage just to help guide everything out, um, but sorry, what was the question?

Headaches, yes, I have a headache because I've been getting like I've gotten hormonal headaches. Would I do that facial massage? Could that potentially help me? It, it actually can, and again, I will do when I feel sick. Allergy season, cold and flu season.

I get a lot of questions. Some people it works amazing for is just doing some of that to get relieve some of the sinus pressure. Um, there's a correlation with, again, The brain lymphatics and headaches, if they're backed up, some people will notice that. So again, it's a great tool. You don't have to do it every day, but there might be times when it might be beneficial.

It also might not help you at all. It could be related to something else like you're dehydrated. But, but it's something to try. It takes five minutes to try. It is not going to do any harm as long as you have no medical condition like blood clots.

It's something you can definitely try, and definitely. So I like, you're saying, like bring it to the lymph nodes. So if you're going to smooth out or come from your eyes, like I get a headache up here and push down towards the lymph nodes or out towards these lymph nodes, um, super interesting, you know, yeah, for sure. Um, so what about someone with like brain cancer? Like that, I mean, is it technically around like a lymph node and would that be helpful or not at all?

Um, most of the time with brain cancer, they don't have lymph nodes taken, so they're not really at a risk for lymphedema, and there's a lot of swelling going on from, especially if they have radiation or surgery. And so we actually, in the cancer world, we don't do lymphatic drainage unless we're cleared, because there's a lot of treatment and things, there's a lot going on in the body. So we don't do it during treatment unless the doctor's asking us. For a variety of reasons, but usually we just wait until someone's treatment is over and then it's more of a healing tool, more of a healing tool. OK, that is interesting.

You know, I was also thinking that too. I was just curious, do you do it while you're doing chemo? It's, you can if you're clear. There are times in certain drugs that you don't want to be pushing a lot of things around. So you have to talk to your doctor.

You have to talk to your doctor for sure. During radiation, the skin is really sensitive, so we don't usually do it during again unless someone has an issue, the doctor wants us doing it. Um, we just, we don't know enough of, of, there's a lot going on in the body. We don't know enough, so we are just being more cautious at that time. I love hearing the deep breathing, so every workout, what do we start with?

A deep breath, a deep breath with the squat right with the squat because people, you know, you take about 21,000 breaths a day and you don't even think about it, and deep breathing is one of the best ways to just flood your body with oxygen, which does make you feel good and also calms you down. So all of this health stuff correlates, but you can see how on the internet, social media in particular, they'll glom onto one wellness concept and they go, everybody needs this, and if you don't do it, oh my gosh, something's gonna happen to you and you know, it creates so much anxiety, so much. Yeah, I have routines for people who just want to do it, like you said, five minutes a day. Um, it's great to do if you feel really good if it works for you, but you don't have to. You don't have to.

If you feel overwhelmed by that, you don't have to. Um, I do want to mention that we did decide to unlock one of our gold workouts, um, during this Q&A, so we're gonna give you the link. You can unlock it. Um, so if you are not a member of Get Health You or if you are a premium member, not a gold member, this is now open to you. If you're a gold member, you have access, but it's a, um, neck mobility workout.

So just talking about our lymph nodes up here and we're just talking about headaches and different things. It is a really nice routine that many of our members have. It's actually, we recorded it several years ago and it's just been a popular workout or maybe I should even say therapy session, you know, more than a workout that people enjoy, um, so take advantage of that if you'd like. Um, well, something as simple as doing legs up the wall helps with lymphatic issues in the lower body. Uh, this member has exercised daily for years and is at like a really good weight but has a lot of swelling in the lower body, especially around her knees.

That's one thing I see online too is people having their legs up, and gravity can help when it comes to something like lymphedema or like true lymphatic congestion. It's not enough by itself, but at the end of the day, if you're just one who gets a little swelling, it's gonna be helpful, absolutely for just the general person. Um, if indeed they really do have a problem, they're seeing a lot of swelling in the lower body, what would you suggest next? Poses up the wall. Yeah, if you're doing legs up the wall, if you have lymphedema, you can't, you would have to be there all day for it to do anything for you.

So it's really compression is number one. We add an exercise lymphatic drainage, again, anything like sleep and nutrition and water intake, things like that. Um, but we want you moving. I would rather have you moving for my patients who have lymphedema, I'd rather have you moving and active and exercising for all of the benefits that come with it versus just having your legs up the wall. But at the end of the day, if you're lounging and want to do that, absolutely.

So could you massage? Would you do the same process where you massage your. Skin with your whole hand bringing it up towards the groin. Yes, so with the legs, you, you still bring everything towards the groin. If your legs are up, you're just having gravity help you with that process.

So absolutely that would add in that, or you can add in, have your legs up and just doing ankle pumps, doing some muscle activation. So you like that, yeah, absolutely. Um, we, OK, so we have someone with lower leg edema and a history of treated venous, um, varicose veins. How can you tell if the swelling is from like the venous insufficiency or is it the lymphedema? That's a really good question.

It's not that easy to answer, I will say, um, unless you have medical testing. And so if you look at them, if you look at your legs and you notice that the swelling is fairly new, and in the mornings it looks really good actually and then by the evenings it's worse. That's typically more of a vein issue. Lymphedema tends to be there all the time. Yes, it worsens a little, but mornings don't typically look that great.

Um, if someone has what we call pitting, so if you squeeze in the skin and it indents and it stays indented when you take your finger away, that tends to be more vein. Um, lymphedema has more of a tendency to change your skin as well, so it may harden, it may feel thicker. We call it fibrosis if someone's had lymphedema for a while. So that might be something you see. Veins, typically it's both legs.

Lymphedema tends not always, but tends to be more one sided. So those are all things that you can look at. Again, the best way to know is a doctor will have you do a vein test. Lymphatic testing is not as common, but they are available in most areas as well and to see what is truly the reason. But I will say at the end of the day as a lymphedema therapist, we treat them in a very similar way.

So if you work with a therapist, they can help you too. Who is like the top knowledgeable person to go to with questions when you do have lymphedema? So like medical, non-medical, where do you go first so you can ask all your questions to them. Kelly. That's right.

This is challenging because it depends on where you live. If in your area you have a lymphedema doctor, so we usually have a physical medicine rehab doctor, um, we have one here in the Twin Cities, maybe two or three that are you know, have some knowledge on it, but that's really rare. So I understand that's hard to find a doctor who knows, but they may be out there. Next best thing is a certified lymphedema therapist. And so you want to make sure that they are certified.

That is a big thing. They have advanced training. And you can search that online as well, but that would be the next person who has advanced training, knows lymphedema, and knows how to treat it as well, and you are a certified lymphedema therapist, so you are that person. Would they come to your YouTube channel and ask you questions? Would they come to their website?

Where's the best place to ask you questions? That's a good question. I'm not always your. Because I don't know your medical history. I don't know your background, so it's challenging for me to say I can't help you medically online.

I like to say generally most people, this is how we do lymphatic drainage for, but if you have a medical concern that you have more in-depth questions, You always want to try to find someone local, because you deserve the best care, too. Um, we have someone with lymphedema in the arms, chin, and neck. There are many supplements and creams promising to de-puff areas like the bat wings, double chins. Are there any that you recommend or should one just stay with manual drainage? There are none that I recommend when it comes to creams.

Supplements, I know there are some that are out there. Uh, there's nothing that I'm aware of that has really good results specifically for lymphatics. So the best thing is compression when it's possible, lymphatic drainage, and exercise; those three are the best things. Speaking our language. Exactly, our language, and that's why I just said the fountain of youth is not a fountain, it's a dumbbell.

I mean, you gotta pick it up and do the work, and yes, people take supplements, but supplements don't make you lose weight. The work makes you lose weight; eating healthy makes you lose weight. Something might be a little helpful or it might curb your appetite, but there is no magic pill or powder, um, because if there was, it would have already been discovered, but you know, I hear you loud and clear with the movement thing. Um, and also, I, I, you know, I've learned a lot so far this hour, too, and the key is to find that specialist nearby that can really give you what you deserve for help. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing.

It just makes sure they're certified. Some, uh, like massage therapists might just do the lymphatic drainage piece, but a lymphedema therapist, which you know, could be a massage therapist, so it's a certified lymphedema therapist. They are trained to treat you as a whole with a variety of treatments, not just lymphatic drainage, because I will be honest, lymphatic drainage is a good tool, but it's actually not the number one tool out there for lymphedema, so you just want to make sure that you are getting again the best care that you deserve. Um, so obviously, we've talked a lot about like the massage and lymphatic drainage. Is there, are there exercises other than just moving your body that you recommend or is it just move your body?

Like, are there any certain and beyond the Rubbing, yeah, the massage, yeah, I love this question because it's something I'm passionate about is when I was trained well over a decade ago now, we were taught not a whole lot, but we knew that doing movements helps with your lymphatics. So we were taught to teach our patients. What we call remedial exercises, ankle pumps, heel slides, the basics, which work, but what we're learning and what I'm excited about when it comes to more research and learning more about lymphedema and lymphatics is how strength training—here we go—how strength training can play a role because over time we've learned that I've seen patients myself firsthand too who have lost so much muscle strength. Because they have chronic lymphedema and we're learning how important strength training is for these individuals as well. So it's not always enough just to do ankle pumps sitting there unless that's all you can do.

If something is always better than nothing, but if we have the ability to do true strength training, get stronger, get your muscles stronger. There's a lot of benefit to that as well. Do some squats, do some lunges, use the larger muscle groups, get them moving, and muscle is the place where glucose and insulin are regulated. Muscle obviously helps with metabolism and calorie burn. Muscle helps with bone.

There are so many benefits, yeah, there's just so much to it, so super interesting. Um, are there any specific dietary guidelines for lymphedema? This is fairly new as well. We don't have strict guidelines, but we do see that we're leaning towards things like an anti-inflammatory diet, which may be helpful for someone. Um, again, eating just healthy, healthy choices is what it comes down to.

So there is one thing that we should know about the general population when it comes to lymphatics. There is a correlation for those who may have had lymph nodes taken for like a cancer treatment. There you are at a higher risk of developing lymphedema if you are morbidly obese, because we do know that those who are morbidly obese, so get very high on the BMI scale, if we use BMI as an example, can cause damage to the lymphatics just because of the excess fatty tissue in those areas. And so we do know there's a risk if someone is there and has lymph nodes taken. So a reason just to stay healthy is to make healthy choices, healthy food choices, exercise, um, but there is some correlation there, so that can play a role as far as just watching your diet just to remain as healthy as possible.

Speaking our language again, exactly. Um, could doing a lymphatic drainage protocol cause nausea a few hours later? It can, because really for some, some people are very in tune with their body and they can feel that lymphatic fluid moving, and some people will afterward feel a little foggy, um, get a headache, just like some people do when they get massages, just general body massages. Some people get sore. It's just the response to moving all of this fluid, toxins, whatever.

So it is possible. We just want to stay hydrated. It doesn't happen very often, um, in my practice, but we're treating them a little bit different than you would if you were getting a standard massage, so absolutely possible, um stay hydrated but it usually goes away pretty quickly. Can you talk about the massages? There's a—I mean, there's your general massage, right?

But then there's some that are like they're they're calling lymphatic massages. Can you talk about those? Yeah, and I've seen it advertised like come get a lymphatic massage at some massage therapist. I mean, I see what you're saying, like right here, and I, I was telling you I have a girlfriend who does her lymphatic massage every day, which is great. She's not sick though, so I'm gonna remind her you're not sick, but if she has the time, if she, why not do it.

It feels good for some people. So when a massage therapist is advertising a lymphatic massage, what do you think? Again, it's an option if it makes you feel good, like some general massages, do they really do a whole lot for your muscles? Some yes, some no, but if it makes you feel really good, it could be beneficial for you, right? So I'm not gonna say no to basically doing it for you.

You could do it yourself, but it is relaxing when someone else is doing it. So if you're just laying there, I could see the benefit of that. Yeah, and if someone has lymphedema, we are actually also not doing just lymphatic drainage. Massage, but we're also working on fibrotic tissue and tissue changes. So that's a little bit different, but for the general person, please just make sure they have a certification or training, um, especially if you're doing something like a post-op cosmetic, that is a growing issue right now.

People, uh, massage therapists in general are. are saying we can do lymphatic drainage, but they're not trained, and that's a surgery now I don't know, but I, I don't know if I want anyone massage you aren't you like you have sutures and stuff. Yeah, that's why someone needs to be trained, which there are people who are trained to move around the incisions. Never, never let someone try to drain out your incisions, please. Um, that is, that is shown online.

So just those are things that you want to make sure someone is certified and see what their training is before you do it. But again, if it makes you feel really good, if you feel a lot of benefit to it, and some people who need it on occasion, it can be great. It's going back to the training. It comes back to the training you are contacting somebody who you trust and believe. Uh, you know, knows what they're doing.

I would say too with that if you get confused, uh, massage, anyone can get certified really, but massage therapist, they should have another title with that certification like lymphatic, uh, certification of some sort because not all massage therapists are trained in lymphatic massage, not all physical therapists are trained in lymphedema training so we can just make sure there's another layer of that training. Do those massages like look very different like if you're doing a lymphatic one, I mean, because I've seen like again. On the internet you never had one, but like you're laying more on your back like, like is there a huge difference between what those look like? There are a few different types of lymphatic drainage out there. Uh, you'll see the Brazilian one, which tends to be a little bit deeper.

It's just how someone is taught in their training. So there's a couple different certifications out there. The biggest thing is gonna be looking if you're doing it for a medical reason that someone has that extra layer, um, but some people can, if you're just doing it to feel good, The Brazilian one is just fine. It's just like a feel-good move, some fluid kind of massage, right? Right, right, right.

Um, if you are someone with lymphedema, can you get regular massages and facials? Or should you stay away from them? No, you absolutely can. Again, I would make sure someone knows what they're doing and not trying to move fluid in the wrong direction for you, um, just so they have an understanding. Usually, they'll just avoid the area at times that that's OK too, and you don't want an extremely deep, uh, massage that can cause inflammation or bruising or anything.

Like that, because all that's going to do is make the swelling worse. I'm curious about something like a TheraGun. Yeah, you know how people have like a little TheraGun, and it's great? You can put it on different intensities. That's another hot topic, yeah.

OK, so tell us about that. Is that worthy? So again, if you're just using it for muscles, of course, but I mean for lymphatic, it's, it's not. I would say it's not something I would start with. Um, again, if you have lymphedema, you got to be a little bit careful because you don't want to add inflammation to the area.

What is inflammation? It's swelling. We're not trying to add more swelling to an area, but again, for some people it just feels good. It gets their muscles, blood flowing, muscle, muscle. It's not, it's pretty It's not the first thing I would do.

That's all I would say. I, I always hear, like I've learned in my career, first it was always about if we don't have research, we can't do that, and I totally understand that not everyone's the same and we don't have enough research to prove everything. And so for me it's always is it safe for someone? Are they going to cause any damage or will they cause any issues? And if so, OK, how does it make them feel?

If they feel overwhelmed by it, I, I we have other things we can do. If it's, if they say that I feel a lot of benefit from this, great, as long as it's safe. I think that's great. Um, another question just came through. I just lost it, here it is.

Are you familiar with the tactile flexy touch that massages the lymph nodes? And if so, what do you think about it? Yeah, so that's one of the pneumatic pumps. That's one of the brands. There are probably four or five brands out on the market.

Um, it's one of the options again, we only use it for people who have lymphedema. It's not necessary to buy if you don't. They're extremely expensive and you can only get it through insurance if you have a medical diagnosis. Um, it's like those recovery leg pumps that you've seen, um, that people wear and they fill up. So this one is specific; instead of just filling up and staying filled, this one goes through a sequence that pumps up the leg.

So it's supposed to work very similar to how lymphatic drainage works, but it's just a pump style. So it's actually extremely convenient for someone who has lymphedema who can't reach their legs or just wants to take it easy on their hands. They have arthritis, um, just want to lounge a little bit more. They can put the pumps on and it works like their lymphatic drainage for the day. And these pumps are different than the pumps that athletes are using for recovery.

Yes, these are different. You cannot buy these on Amazon. You go through insurance to get them, and the doctor will sign an order. And you go through that process because these pumps are very popular for athletes or people training for endurance races and things like that, but totally different tool. OK.

They look very similar and I would not, if you have lymphedema, but would not do the recovery one because that actually could make it worse too. Good to know. Um, can lymphatic drainage help with weight loss or bloating is a question that came through. And I would add cellulite to that list too. Because I get that question a lot.

I was gonna bring that up because people are always like, should I be doing these techniques because maybe I have cellulite because my lymph nodes are clogged. I'm like, I don't think so. This is one area, well, I just be honest, I think it's a little bit of a scare tactic. But doing lymphatic drainage, yes, for 1 hour or 2 hours for a very short period of time, you can see those visual changes, but you have liters and liters of fluid pumping through you all day long, so all you're doing is just kind of helping for that brief moment, and then it's gonna come right back. So again, it's not gonna hurt you to do it, but I would not spend, you know, every waking moment thinking about it.

But you're having to add that weight. Losing weight, same thing. No, that's not gonna make much of a difference at all. I again, the only time I would say it's gonna make you lose weight is if you have lymphedema, we get rid of the fluid. I've had people lose, you know, up to 80 pounds of fluid, but again for a medical reason.

That's the only thing that you may hear that actually I have seen to be very true. But if you're trying to drop 5 pounds, lymphatic drainage is not going to be how going back to that's not how you're going to lose weight. It's not a long term fix, and the whole cellulite thing too, like you hear the dry brushing and the, oh gosh, there was some woman who invented a machine. I can't remember what it is. People ask me about it all the time, and it looks like it has just little, uh.

Yeah, yeah, I know what you're not rubber, but what do you say, plastic spikes on it, and you go like this and rake your leg pretty much. I mean, and for a split second after you rake your leg, you can't really see the cellulite, but it's not removing cellulite, but they claim it's creating circulation, which it could be, it could be, and that's what you see the difference of is because now there's a little bit more blood flow there, so you don't see that same surface. So that, again, that's why it's a temporary thing again for a couple of hours versus not a long term thing. Well, and one thing about it is cellulite is just body fat pillowing through muscle fibers. So even thin people have cellulite because as you get older, those muscle fibers loosen up and any body fat that you have, whether you have a little or a lot can pillow through.

So your best defense against cellulite is to tighten those muscle fibers so that the cellulite can't pillow through, if you will. Um, but as you do get older, like I'm turning 60 in a couple of months, I'm a little cellulite shows up. It happens on the back of your legs, and I don't care because I Know that my legs are strong, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Um, we had a question come through about the pumps again.

Are the pumps beneficial for internal swallowing, thinking like head and neck cancers? There is a pump out on the market that is for head and neck cancer. So again, medically there are options out there. It's, it is okay for some people, it's not for everyone. Um, so it's gonna work with a lymphedema therapist who can trial things with you, find what works for you, um, but there are options, absolutely.

Um, are there any recommendations like before or after a lymphatic drainage, um, drink water, like avoid, you know, alcohol, exercise, what are some of your tools before or after doing something like this? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is stay hydrated, drink water, um. Another thing is when you are dehydrated, your lymph nodes will swell too, so staying hydrated is also helpful for your lymphatics, just really basic things, um, and, and that's really it. Get moving, get going and get going on the day. We just, you and I were talking about elements.

So electrolytes are also helpful, right, right. I, it's just going back to your basics for your lymphatics. It's the exercise. It's trying to pick up healthy eating options, staying hydrated, getting good sleep. That's what it comes down to for the general population.

It's the boring stuff that you already know that'll help you. Um, well this has been super interesting about lymphatic drainage. It has just been so viral on the internet. We get questions. I think people are confused.

Should I? Shouldn't I? Am I worried about it? Am I supposed to have anxiety? Um, you've made it really easy to understand, so we find you on YouTube.

You have a lot of just basic videos that can again go through some of this education. Yeah, so. My handle is Canehapp BT and yes, I, it starts with cancer, but a lot of my content, especially on YouTube is really for lymphatics and general lymphedema because of all the questions I get. So you can probably find, uh, one of those questions or every single one of those questions I probably answer in a YouTube video, um, but happy to answer any others again. But if you have any medical question for your personal, I would highly recommend finding a specialist near you because again I'll say it again, you deserve um really better care than that.

Yeah, that is awesome. Um, wow, this has been interesting. How did an hour go by? I mean, that's really crazy. Thank you for coming in.

Thanks for having me. That was great. So appreciated. I'm sure that our community really appreciates it too. Thank you, you guys, for working so hard and taking care of yourself and spending the time to listen to things that are important.

I think it rang loud and clear. Deal with a specialist, with a specialist. Don't just deal with an influencer online who just picked up something and said, Hey, you need lymphatic drainage. I mean, you need to know more about it. So super fun.

Thank you so much for joining us. If, uh, you can always rewatch this. It's, it's going to live on our website, uh, YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram and on gethealthyUTV.com. Um, you can watch all past Q&A's too. So we've had some interesting guests and interesting subjects.

So thank you, Kelly. Oh, thanks for having me. It's fun being here. All right, thanks, everybody. Have a great day.